Curse

generik · May 30, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

So I tried air of enchantment today, for a while I thought I'd cast it on myself and for that period of time my enchantment spells would cost less but apparently that's not so... so what's that great about it again?

I'd prefer OOB or MoR for energy management anyday, in fact AoE sucks as it is.

Mystic Memory · May 30, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

I for one would like to say to ANET to be careful with arcane languor. Any significant buff could tip it from uselessness into overpowered.

Just think of it this way, a buff from 4sec duration (or 5 at super high fc), to 8sec duration (as suggested by someone else), would allow it to be maintained on the monk for 40+ seconds using arcane echo.

Im a mesmer myself, btw, so dont think I dont want it to be buffed. I just think it should be dealt with carefully.

On another note, I think more than half of the faction mesmer skills suck balls. Psychic instability shuts down 7 of your skills for 1-3 of their skills. Also, for a spell in fc, stolen speed has almost no noticeable effect (from what Ive heard, it also applies AFTER fc, making it even more useless. i.e. 8 sec spell... 4 sec after fast cast... 3 sec after stolen speed).

Also, some of the prophecy mesmer elites arent quite worth it (panic, fevered dreams) Keystone signet is better now, but still so situational and not suited for anything but RA (not even PVE)

Retribution X · May 30, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Heck. Triple chop needs to add, bleeding for 21 secs, Deep wound for 21 secs, and poison for 21 secs, and it should hit target foe 3 times, and have a damage bonus of 50dmg per hit...

But that's my humble opinion...

All the new mesmer elites DO suck balls.

Ret.

P.S. I was just kidding about triple chop BTW

Exile Of Heaven · May 30, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

O_o that was clear u were joking

Well, indeed RL need some nerf.....
Air of Enchantment, may stay like this becuz i wanna cap it soon for my boon prot, go a nice build for it

Peewee · May 30, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

For the love of god Restoration needs more then just Soothing memories as a viable heal! Wielders Boons is so amasingly bad I want to cry!

Soul twisting should reduce the cost of the next spirit by 5 also. It's a bit energy demanding, more so then Lord.

Spirit transfer is amasingly useless in it's present form, make it's recast 5 seconds.

Spirit Light is so utterly amasingly BAD that I'm not sure if it's worse then Boon. Buff it's heal. Alot.

Make Ray of Judgement recast 10 seconds not 30.

No one in their right mind would EVER run withdraw hexes, make it cost 5 energy not 15. It's Elite for god sakes, you shouldn't have to make your team ball up to make it usefull. "Ok guys ball up nice and TIGHT!"

AoD 15 energy from 10. Atleast.

Boon signet. Double it recast and it's energy gain.

Release enchantments. Make it heal for more then nothing mmmk? Maybe make it comparable to Heal Party?

Life Sheath. For the love of god give it 1/4s cast, 5 recast.

Shield Guardian. 5 energy.

Spirit Channeling(I know, back to Rt). FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THIS SKILL SUCKS!

Signet of spirits. Bigger Area.

Clamor of Souls. Your kidding right? Do I need to say it sucks?

Armor of Unfeeling. Remove 'while casting spirits'. Make it a skill.

Weapon of quickening. For the love of god it sucks. 50% and we'll think about it.

Psychic Instability. WTF?!?!?!?!?!?

Overload. WTF?!?!?!?!

Lysa's Aura. More duration. Should be 30 seconds at 10 insp.

Power Leech. Make the duration 20 seconds.

Make illusion of pain not heal the person if it's removed before it ends.

Shared Burden. Better. Faster. Stronger. Not sucky.

Energy boon. For the love of GOD!

Gust. You think people will use that?

Skull Crack. For starters, if you crack someone that's dazed it should reapply. It should be ALOT less adren.

Protectors defense. ALOT bigger area. Shouldn't effect you. Should be maintainable.

Primal Rage. Add some IAS.

There's more, but I think you get the idea. Basicly make the useless skills that are designed for PvP not useless. There's alot of chapter 1 skills in the same book, skull crack for one.

You can have strategy without options. So give us some and more more then just 30 skills per class useful.

Basically, all of them and more. Well said Falrow.

Kakumei · May 30, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

So I tried air of enchantment today, for a while I thought I'd cast it on myself and for that period of time my enchantment spells would cost less but apparently that's not so... so what's that great about it again?

I'd prefer OOB or MoR for energy management anyday, in fact AoE sucks as it is.

It's not used for prot, it's used for smiting.

Yichi · May 30, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martimus

Arcane Langour is a awesome skill wut u do is use equinox they arcane echo it and keep it on a monk for as long as possible after two or 3 casts hes totally exhausted easy so i dont know wut ur thinking

once again this skill gets up to 5 seconds with arcane echo u can keep it on up to 10 seconds then with equinox it does double so if u put it on a monk and just have a warrior force him to heal he will exhaust himself in 2-3 casts also u can use another me/r for the equinox and have him bring arcane mimicry and arcane echo and he can also have arcane lanquor on another monk for 10 seconds so for all of u who say this elite is bad ur crazy

Kill spirit + pre-veil > this idea. Why on earth would u ever take 3 chars to completely shutdown one monk. these 3 chars would have to basically sit on the one monk to accomplish what 1 dom mesmer can do with the right build.

shardfenix · May 30, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Nerf list:

1: Order of Apostasy. Right now, it might as well say "you win". Your opponents losing all their enchantments in a matter of seconds is a little too strong. Compare to Dark Apostasy, where it works for only 1 player, and runs out if it removes too many enchantments. Also compare to old Natures Renewal, which removed enchantments from everyone including your team. Apostasy only removes from enemies. Don't flame me about just killing the apostasy necro, because they can hide 2.5 aggro circles away from you and still annihilate your team with it.

2: Air of Enchantment. Which reads "For as long as you are alive, boon prots have infinite energy, and smite monks deal 37 damage every half second." Compare to Divine Spirit (not elite, but just for comparison) where it can't reduce its own cost, and reduces costs down to 1.

3: Ritual Lord. My version of what it does: "For 30 seconds, all necromancers have infinite energy to heal with, and your team can't die as long as you aren't interrupted."

4: Psychic Distraction. "Interrupt target foe's action, even if they have mantra of resolve/glyph of concentration on. This also interrupts claim resource, making it impossible for ghostlies to cap or for thieves to open guild halls. Oh, and they can't use the interrupted skill for 11 seconds"

5: Temple Strike. This one isn't too bad. At least it has recharge and it is removable. However, in random arenas where condition removal is rare, temple strike can easily destroy a monk. I recommebd lower the recharge, but make the blind/daze last maximum 5 seconds.

6: Vampyric Swarm: Right now it says "do 150+ unpreventable damage, gain 150+ life" which doesn't seem too bad until you notice that there is delay between when you finish the spell and when they actually lose health. 4 or 5 people running swarm + gaze make a non-infusable spike.

7: Flesh golem. Make it so you can have only one and it will be a finely tuned skill.

8: Soul Twisting. It's hard to talk about skills with no attribute. This one requires that another allied spirit is alive. In exchange, you can keep displacement up forever while you have the energy. To a well coordinated group, this skill means "Your team can never get hit with physical attacks." The instant recharge is the thing that makes it good. Even lowering it to 75% recharge would make it less godly.

9: Auspicious Parry. The only skill that makes my PvE hatelist. AP makes it way too easy to solo farm, and makes you unkillable against enemy warriors in RA/TA. Increase the cost to 2 adrenaline.

shardfenix · May 30, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

It's not used for prot, it's used for smiting.

Say that to my monk who runs AoE in the Deep and FoW. I created the first monk build that can keep 4 people alive without any energy regen and without needing any energy to cast.

Evilsod · May 30, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

All the new mesmer elites DO suck balls.

Thats not all true. Shared Burden can be an incredibly potent snare. Its illusion, cast it with a high level Mantra of Persistance and you've got a ~35 snare in a large area. Shame really that the only use for this would be PvE to control groups for eles to nuke. In 9 out of 10 cases from what i've seen on Observations, you will never hit more than 2 people with a snare at the same time. In the cases like protecting a flag runner you hit 1, pretty damn useless there.

Anet really are basing skills on situation way too much. Shared is only good if things are in large groups otherwise you might aswell use Imagined.
Arcane Languor is only good if your target happens to be a moron and casts through it 3 times.

Are people STILL whining about Blinding Flash? Get over it ffs, its a warrior shut down. If its recharge was increased then you might aswell increase the recharge for every other anti-warrior skill, without Ether Prodigy you really can't keep up BF for very long

Kakumei · May 30, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Say that to my monk who runs AoE in the Deep and FoW. I created the first monk build that can keep 4 people alive without any energy regen and without needing any energy to cast.

Sure you did, champ.

Evilsod · May 30, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Sure you did, champ.

Wonder if he'll share his godly build with the rest of us useless folk... bet its too secret

MSecorsky · May 30, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Contemplation of Purity needs to be a spell, not a skill.

At least... that's what my Shroud of Silence assassin keeps telling me.

Xasew · May 30, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Soul twisting should reduce the cost of the next spirit by 5 also. It's a bit energy demanding, more so then Lord.

Spirit transfer is amasingly useless in it's present form, make it's recast 5 seconds.

Soul Twisting in the hands of a skilled player is extremely powerful. Look at Elendar in the finals.
Are we talking about the Spirit Transfer that with 14 Restoration heals a target for 213 health in 1/4 seconds with 10 energy? It's like Infuse with much, much better health/energy ratio. Great for catching spikes. 10 seconds is a bit much yea, but I wouldn't call it useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Make Ray of Judgement recast 10 seconds not 30.

The recharge is 20 seconds at the moment.
AoE spike every 10 seconds without line of sight seems kinda too good to me. Other Smiting skills need so much more buffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

AoD 15 energy from 10. Atleast.

Why? AoD is just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Life Sheath. For the love of god give it 1/4s cast, 5 recast.

So that it becomes totally ownage in both pressure and catching spikes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Spirit Channeling(I know, back to Rt). FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THIS SKILL SUCKS!

24 energy bad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Shared Burden. Better. Faster. Stronger. Not sucky.

Maybe lower to 10 energy? Other than that it looks like the best snare in the game. GvG splits are much easier to do/kill with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Energy boon. For the love of GOD!

Can be used with Attunements and can't be stripped. Gives still about 4 pips of energy with ~12 in ES.

I checked the skills from GWonline.net, so if I have wrong info, feel free to correct me.

Snowman · May 30, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I look forward to reading your thoughts!

lol! - I bet you do..

"OMG they nerfed...."

or

"Open letter to ANET Concerning recent Skill change"...

oh yes, its a wonderfull time xD and I looked forward to your very well worded replies Gaile

exiled mat · May 30, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Ritual Lord - Seriously needs nerf. Now its must-have in spirit based Rt build - there is no other option. Just compare it to Soul Twisting - u can have one spirit recharged at cost of sacrificing another one or all spirits recharging 79% faster - duh. The thing is that without this skill rituals have too long recharge to be viable - it not supports Ritualist - its needed to be one. I think that rituals recharge times could be shortened a bit and Rit lord could give sth like 50-60% at 16 spawning. Just look at the displacement or union spirit - without Rt lord they r totally useless; shelter can be used without it but its much weaker that way. Whole attribute line (communing in that case) shouldn't rely on single skill (elite or not) to work. That way there would be more options for using spirits. Im playing Rt myself and I know that its just overpowered skill.

yeah, like... Interupting your spirit will never shut you down

Interrupting the spirits = GG ritualist

Wessels · May 30, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Ritual Lord - Should be an enchantment.

Why ?? Ritual lord is only viable when used in conjunction with Boon of creation ( and that is an enchantment ) . Besides : those spirits take a long casting time (= easily interruptable ) and some of them die pretty fast . Ritual lord is- as far as I'm concerned - the only elite worth taking for communing ritualist ( shelter/union) ,if you nerf it that will be the end of ritualists using those builds ( in effect the end of communing ) .

Have any of the folks crying nerf for ritual lord actually played with that setup ?? It is by no means über .

Quote:

Whole attribute line (communing in that case) shouldn't rely on single skill (elite or not) to work. That way there would be more options for using spirits. Im playing Rt myself and I know that its just overpowered skill.

then you should also know it's only viable when used with boon of creation.that way there wouldn't be more options but less options to use spirits,by the way ( put up boon of creation>gets shattered >bb spirit-summoning ,when you nerf RL )

Servant of Kali · May 30, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I'll first comment and then post my suggestions:

Quote:

Shadow Song - Shouldn't be able to be "missed" by a blinded target and should take damage when ever it blinds.

I dont know what you mean by 'shouldnt be missed', but i dont like your suggestion. As a Rt player, you should know that shadowsong more often than not will hit some squishie like monk, mesmer or ele, and NOT warrior/ranger... Sure if warrior is solo oh well. But skill is fine, it's in no way overpowered. I cant possibly believe ur saying it's overpowered, when most people around me think that dmg Rt sucks just about everywhere (i disagree).

Quote:

Vampiric Gaze/Touch SHOULD be spells.

Touch should be skill. Not spell. It's logical that it's a skill.

However, your problem with touch is touch ranger build. While i agree counters are few, i dont like nerfing everything on sight.

New skill:
"Burnout" - Hex. If target foe uses a skill x times in x seconds, that skill is disabled for xy seconds.

I dont think this would hurt RoF Monks much, they have plenty hex removals. But touch rangers dont. Most of them just like to solo, which they can. Now, this skill would disable their spammage. Ok, true, Diversion would do the same, but make this one cheaper, since it's more conditional, and doesnt trigger instantly.

Quote:

Making Ritual Lord an enchantment would nerf it out of existence. Again, there are great counters for it already: just e-deny the Ritualist or Divert all the spirits.

Actually, Consume Soul would pretty much own any Rt build. Drain his Boon of Creation, and Consume. The problem is, not many want to waste an elite on that. I dont find any problem with it, aside of people being lazy. Everyone brings Spell Breaker in HoH, even tho only good use for it is on ghostly. Well i guess it's time people consider Consume Soul.

Quote:

once again this skill gets up to 5 seconds with arcane echo u can keep it on up to 10 seconds then with equinox it does double so if u put it on a monk and just have a warrior force him to heal he will exhaust himself in 2-3 casts

I play in TA mostly. What u just described would do.. nothing. Monk at 5 energy out of 40, could cast 2x and still wont be hurt all that badly.

Of course, im talking about stupid monks. Any half-decent monk will CoP/inspire your cute arcane echoed elite skill. If you ever played hex mesmer against CoP boon prot in 4v4, you'll know what im talking about. It's just not worth it.

You use 2 elites to shut down monk for how long? If. I'd like to see your theory in practice. I heard many people saying skills i use are horrible, and in practice they work. Yet their 'superb' skills in practice kinda... sucked.

Quote:

Gaze From Beyond. 126 armor ignoring damage for 5/1/15? It's pretty much Obsidian Flame without the drawbacks.

Drawback is making ur spirit weaker

Well it's not all that much, but hey it is a drawback

Quote:

Have any of the folks crying nerf for ritual lord actually played with that setup ?? It is by no means über .

You know, i find something funny. Hardly anyone will want you in a team if you're Rt. They usually will say it sucks. But, when facing Rt, it's overpowered.

Servant of Kali · May 30, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Ok time for the exact skill suggestions. Only mesmer and Rt, since that's what i usually play in pvp lately.

If i mention some skill as underpowered, pls lemme know in what arena you use it an how. It's quite possible that i missed some good combo.

Mesmer

Overload - a very small increase in dmg would be nice. Not too much, just abit. As it is, the skill is very very limited in its use.

Arcane Languor - others commented on it already

Lyssa's Aura - not many (if any?) max Inspiration line, so effective lenght of this skill is 8 sec or so. With recharge of 15. It's... bad. If it wasnt elite skill, i personally would not use it either. Any decent ele spiker or necro/mesmer hexer will wait till enchant is off, then spam all they have to. Sure, it can chance that you're counting stars while warrior (in a highly hypothetical situation) uses this skill, and then you cast hexes on him and it drains your energy.. but.. really, after 1-2 hexes you will notice. Even if you dont, you'll notice after he recasts it. Most battles last longer than 15sec anyway. In any case, at its best, the skill is so very situational that even if it works in 1 battle it will be useless in next 20.

Unlike what others will say, the rest of mesmer skills are usable, and in no dire need of a buff.

Ritualist

Doom - i've seen few use it. I'll simply say the skill sucks. 10e for 135 max of conditional dmg. This skill needs a lower recharge or more dmg, or both. 15sec recharge means that most likely, in practice, you will be able to use this skill once in 1 minute. I cant imagine a build where this skill will be good

Ashes - i cant comment on the whole Restoration line as i didnt play alot with it. I know it's weaker than monk but that's the way it's supposed to be. However, i have a problem with some ashes. While hilding ashes you cant use staff. That means you cant wand anyone, and even if you dont wanna wand anyone, in alot of cases ashes give minimal benefit. I lose all bonuses staff gives, which means recharge, faster cast etc... for something ashes will give me. Some ashes are worth it but some are not. For instance, Mighty was SomeGuy gives me +5 armor and +5 max energy (after we equalize with staff im carrying), BUT i lose 1 skill slot, i use fastercast, fasterrecharge, and i cant wand (i find wanding cool in pvp). +5 max energy is mostly useless for my Rt, so it's basically +5 armor. Protective Was Kaolai is 10e conditional heal, which has the same drawbacks and i just dont like it. It's just not worth it. Illusion of Weakness is enchant, so can be stripped off sure, but other than that is way better than these ashes. It lasts until effect triggers (or enchant removed); you dont need to recast it. And you can still use staff/weapon. Vengeful Was Khanhei is a skill that only farmers are using. Im not saying idea of the skill is bad, it's not, but it needs to be reworked somehow.

Armor of Unfeeling - there's something missing with this skill. It's a good idea, tho. Maybe make dmg reduction abit bigger? I mean let's face it, no one is spamming spirits 100% of the time. Let's compare it to Shielding Hands; 10 sec, -15dmg (but not base hmm), 5e. Unfeeling isnt weak per se, conditionality makes it a bad skill. Since it's conditional, perhaps just increase dmg reduction. 10 isnt alot really. Remember that if you're casting spirits you aint kiting, so you're gonna take more dmg than a monk who can cast Shielding Hands AND keep kiting.

Spirit Siphon - i saw some numbers on this skill and it seemed bad. Cant say i used it myself tho.

Nightmare Weapon - maybe smaller recharge? With current recharge im not sure why anyone would use it.

These skills are critical, the rest can be worked out.

Siddious · May 30, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Hmm I have been hearing some people complain in saying all factions mesmer elite suck balls. I admit quite a few do, but some are pretty dam useful. Here is my list of mesmer elite they should leave and buff, slighly adn dramatically.

ELITE SKILLS TO LEAVE
Psychic Instability - fine as it is
Sharded Burden - seems fine to me
Power Leech - again does not really need a buff
MOSTLY FINE BUT NEED A VERY SLIGHT BUFF
Expel Hexes - should be placed into fast-casting so it is only useful for primary mesmers.
Shatterstorm - same as above
Stolen Speed - increase in duration
Psychic Distration - lower blackout duration
Recurring Insecurity - needs higher degen
NEED SERIOUS BUFF
Arcane Languor - people have commented enough on this
Lyssa's Aura - longer duration, steal more energy and shorter recharge